Hey There!! Hoping To Get Your Input On This: Ive Seen Plenty Of Fics Where Characters Across The Cql

hey there!! hoping to get your input on this: ive seen plenty of fics where characters across the cql board will say just very openly "i love you." i don't know if this is a common way of expressing romantic love in ancient china? i could be wrong, but the FEELING i get is that it's more common to use gestures, or allude metaphorically to some poem/story instead of being so direct? i think theres an old-fashioned jpn phrase like "i'll make soup for u every day" to confess, anything similar here?

oof, so I’m going to go ahead and start by saying that I don’t know nearly enough to be make generalized statements about how romantic love is expressed in ancient/dynastic China or even in modern-day, because I’m just not widely-read/steeped in the culture enough. And even if I were, I still don’t know if I could make definitive statements on what can be considered a “common way of expressing love” because there are as many ways to express love as there are people and permutations of relationships on this planet.

The renditions of love that tend to linger in our minds, however, tend to be defined by action: 梁山伯与祝英台 Liang Shanbo and Zhu Yingtai, the butterfly lovers inseparable by death; 牛郎织女 Niu Lang and Zhi Nv, a mortal man and celestial maiden, crossing to each other over a bridge over the Milky Way made of magpies; 孟姜女 Meng Qiangnv breaking open the Great Wall with the force of her tears. Just gonna... put that out there.

I did include a brief discussion of the character 爱 ai in this post, which is the character that’s pretty much translates to ‘love’ (and many of its complicated English valences) in modern Mandarin. Given an earlier reading of 爱 not as ‘love,’ but as ‘begrudging, cherishing’ makes the possibility of saying 我爱你 woaini rather...unlikely in ancient China (especially when you consider that 我 wo and 你 ni were different pronouns back then, too... what I’m trying to say is that a simple ctext search hasn’t been helping me here).

I am, however, willing to bet that writing/reciting poetry for your lover was a Thing, and it wouldn’t be me if I didn’t seize every possible opportunity to add gratuitous poetry to a post:

《上邪》/ Shangye

上邪！/ High Heaven!

我欲与君相知，/ I want for us both to know each other

长命无绝衰。/ as long as life, with no decline or end

山无陵，江水为竭，/ When mountains lose their peaks, when river waters dry up,

冬雷震震，夏雨雪，/ when thunder rumbles in winter; when rain and snow fall in summer

天地合，乃敢与君绝！/ when sky and earth seal back together, only then will I dare end things with you!

One of the shortest pieces in the Hanyuefu, which I mentioned briefly in this post, 《上邪》 is an incredibly powerful declaration of love, loyalty, and devotion without using any of the above words (it does, however, use 知 zhi / knowing).

Oh! Both 《上邪》and《卜算子》use 君 jun, which you might recognize from ‘Hanguang-jun’ or ‘Zewu-jun.’ In addition to being an honorific, 君 also appears often in poetry as a respectful second-person pronoun. Again, it’s technically gender-neutral, though most of the time it’s assumed to refer to a man.

《卜算子》李之仪， Busuanzi by Li Zhiyi (Northern Song Dynasty)

我住长江头，君住长江尾。/ I live at the head of the Yangtze; you live at the tail of the Yangtze,

日日思君不见君，共饮长江水。/ Day after day, I think of you but do not see you; we drink from the same river’s waters

此水几时休，此恨何时已。/ When will these waters rest? When will these feelings stop?

只愿君心似我心，定不负相思意。/ I only hope that your heart is similar to mine; I would not let down the intent of our mutual love.*

*note: this entire last line is rough, but I spent more time than I’d like banging my head against 相思, which I translated as ‘mutual love.’ It’s glossed in Pleco as ‘pining, lovesickness’ but literally means ‘mutual thought.’

The language of thought, of mutual thought, of the sentiment behind the phrase thinking of you, is something that goes way, way back. It’s in 《饮马长城窟行》, from the poetry post I linked earlier; it’s also referenced in the last line of 《楚辞·山鬼》Mountain Ghost from the Songs of the South: 思公子兮徒离忧 / only in thinking of you can I depart from sorrows.

Oh! Here’s a classic declaration of love -- literally, from the 《诗经》 Shijing / Classic of Poetry:

[...]

执子之手，与子偕老 / I’ll hold your hand, and with you grow old...

[...]

It’s the most famous line from 《国风·邶风·击鼓》which I think is actually a... war poem? So a poem that’s primarily all about that Mutual Loyalty and Manly Camaraderie, but one that has had its most iconic line co-opted for the sheer romance of it all.

I’m not going to translate《击鼓》 fully because trying to read the 《诗经》is one of my personal nightmares, but you can find it here on ctext with the James Legge translation, which, admittedly, takes some liberties with the text.

One last poem, because the last line is peak pining:

《越人歌》 Yuerenge

今夕何夕兮搴洲中流，/ What evening is this evening? Drifting in the river current.*

今日何日兮得与王子同舟。/ What day is today? That I can travel in the same boat as you, prince

蒙羞被好兮不訾诟耻，/ I hide my shyness, cover my fondness; there will be no slander or gossip or shame*

心几烦而不绝兮得知王子。/ My heart is troubled, unending -- to come to know you, prince

山有木兮木有枝，心说君兮君不知。/ On mountains, there are trees; on trees, there are branches -- my heart delights in you, and you do not know.

*leaning heavily on the baidu-baike glosses

The story I’ve always been told about 《越人歌》 is that a prince of Chu, fleeing political strife in his state, crosses a river in a boat poled by a young woman of the state of Yue. She recognizes the fleeing prince and sings this song to him as she poles across the river. The catch is that she sings it in the language of the state of Yue, so he has absolutely no idea that she’s confessing her admiration and love for him.

This story, according to my Google searches, is inaccurate, but OH WELL, the last line is still peak pining regardless.

The Husky and His White Cat ShiZun, volume THREE 3 三

(The one with the dark cover)

This translation is really awesome. The only notes I have are translations of esoteric reference-styles, a few “here are Chinese characters” if you like that sort of thing, and one minor cultural reminder.

The Husky And His White Cat ShiZun, Volume THREE 3 三

Names in Chinese are so fun. Most are just a very nice-sounding combination of lovely or auspicious characters, but sometime you get great puns (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not so on purpose 😝).

You know things are bad when Xue Meng is calling Mo Ran “big brother.”

霜天 is such a lovely name. Works much better in Chinese.

I am not sure if I love or I hate how all reference terms are different for monks, both towards monks and from monks, but, well, they are.

And that’s it, folks! This was an awesomely easy read. I hope you’re enjoying the story as much as I am.

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weishenmewwx

6 months ago

Stars of Chaos 杀破狼

Volume 3, Notes 2/5, Pages 97 - 151

This was actually a really easy read, maybe because it's been almost a year since I last read this in Chinese and so I am not remembering awesome idioms every page; but, anyway! Here we continue <3

In case you don't already know， a huli jing 狐狸精 is a fox spirit. Famous for being super sexy.

In the online Chinese version I read, there was no actual mention of Gu Yun's movements, but more his mindset: 失魂落魄地走了 = "walked off in a daze". Because of the steel plates and all his injuries, I guess it was not a smooth "walking off" so much as a forlorn stumbling, but I don't like the word "hobbled" used on Gu Yun.

Chinese: "整日里便是在我耳边嘀咕." The meaning is the same as "yakking my year off," but it sounds much more elegant in Chinese, of course: "All day, is at the side of my ear, muttering / whispering / chatting quietly...”

Top: again, it just sounds better in Chinese. English is "like a house on fire," Chinese is "投缘" = "kindred spirits" or, broken apart, "thrown, fate."

Bottom: many official ceremonies are carried out with official, kneeling, head-to-floor bows. In this case, it will be an official ceremony to celebrate Ge Chen becoming Zhang Fenghan's adopted son.

(I love how Chang Geng never actually says "So! Ge Chen wants you to adopt him," but instead says a bunch of nice things to Master Fenghan, and Master Fenghan says some nice things back, and then Chang Geng concludes with "We'll call you with the date of the Adoption Ceremony. Bye!")

I love names in Chinese!

So, Du Wanquan is 杜万全， where

Wan 万 = 10,000 ("a very large number") and

Quan 全 = "complete, all", and

the two words together 万全 = absolutely safe / surefire / thorough （mdbg.net).

Good name for the God of Wealth, yah?

In case you don't remember, Zhong-lao is Old Master Zhong / General Zhong, who came out of retirement to help lead the forces in the South. He trained up both Gu Yun and, much later, Chang Geng.

"Speak of the Devil" in Chinese is "说曹操曹操就到."

曹操 Cao Cao was the king of Wei during the 3 Kingdoms Period (the very very beginnings of the 3 Kingdoms period).

Though I think in the actual story, Cao Cao actually saved a fellow ruler who had been thinking of asking him for help against an attack; but before the fellow could send out his messenger with the request, Cao Cao and his army suddenly appeared and crushed the attackers.

The translation is fine. I just feel like in the phrase 朝廷挤出点口粮实在不容易, using "must have" for the English just feels better.

"When a person hid their wounds WITH THEIR TWO HANDS so that none could see, no one had the right to pry AWAY their hands."

It all makes sense once you realize that the verb used here is 捂 wǔ = "to enclose / to cover with the hand (mdbg.net)."

脏癖 dirty habits/inclinations (because Liao Ran didn't like bathing）

My DanMei Literary Adventure Masterpost

Stars of Chaos - All Notes Links

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weishenmewwx

1 year ago

More Evidence for How My Favorites are Evil (Geniuses)(but not really evil)

from 杀破狼 Stars of Chaos, Ch 57:

Gu Yun laments not being more decisive about obliterating (murdering) all the evidence that he had previously mostly obliterated; or he should have just collected the evidence and used it to stage a hostile takeover. Sigh. Oh well.

Chang Geng reassures LiaoRan that he won’t attack the emperor (not because being nice is the right thing to do, but) because it’s not the right time.

I’m sure there are plenty of other modern western stories where the main characters are grey, but I just can’t think of any other story where the non-villain-coded main characters are all “darn, I should have murdered that other person” and “don’t worry — I won’t murder until the time is right.”

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weishenmewwx

4 years ago

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weishenmewwx

9 months ago

if only priest wrote fanfic, i would totally eat it up 🥹

the 7s translators for spl and guardian have mentioned pipi editing the manuscript for physical eng publication before tho! this would explain why there's so much discrepancy between the online pirated version you're reading and the official eng print

https://x[.]com/lily_ocho/status/1560892610570379270

https://x[.]com/yuka_cchii/status/1696468355836764257

AH! Thank you!! That makes sense.

I rather prefer the online pirated version, probably since I lived in that book for, like, ❤️a year❤️, but I guess that makes sense.

I'll slow the complaining in my annotations, I guess. Sigh. Priest, this is all your fault. 🥰

(Is "pipi" = Priest?)

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weishenmewwx

6 months ago

Stars of Chaos 杀破狼

Volume 3, Notes 5/5, Pages 358 - end

The "Imperial Censorate" here is 御史台, which is the department, not the person. Chang Geng would never slap another person in full view of the court; but he would not hesitate to admistratively slap another department if he felt it was justified.

So. The classic punishment for adultery was to be put in a pig cage and thrown into the river to drown. I don't know how I know this little bit of trivia, seeing as I was raised in the west and my only contact to Chinese culture was my very conservative Chinese mother; but I know this. Adulterers get drowned.

谋事在人，成事在天。 Plotting depends the person, success depends on the heavens. I just wanted you to know that it's symmetrical in Chinese, even though it doesn't translate that way.

The "tactlessly" here is a translation of 不长眼色， which I think could be explained better as "not reading the room" or "not taking hints."

It's not that Ge Chen is tactless so much as he is clueless to the tension between Gu Yun and Chang Geng.

In the online Chinese version that I read, the line is "Zixi! Don't go!" which explains why Chang Geng is reaching out to grab him in a panic -- he thinks Gu Yun is leaving him.

Page 382

Top: The Chinese here is "看看我说话!" which can be translated as either

-- "Look at me while I am talking to you," (though that feels weird) or -- "Look at me and speak - respond to me,"

...both of which are a little different from what is actually written in English. The "look at me when you speak" translation threw me for a second because Chang Geng isn't speaking and hasn't said anything for a while.

Bottom: Liangjiang is 两江 which is Two Rivers. (The north side and the south side of the river?)

This section is actually so pretty:

“天时地利、花前月下、水到渠成”

The perfect time (天时) and place (地利); in front of the flowers (花前) and under the moon (月下); when success is assured (where water flows (水到) a canal will inevitably form (渠成)).

Carriage Door. The carriage door opened, and out came Shen Yi. He had hitched a ride with Miss Chen so that he could leave his home unnoticed.

(When I read the English, I thought that the door was the courtyard door and got really confused.)

----

And that's it for Volume 3!

I love 杀破狼 <3

My DanMei Literary Adventure Masterpost

Stars of Chaos - All Notes Links

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novel stars of chaos sha po lang seven seas priest

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weishenmewwx

3 years ago

I’m looking forward to this (badly suppressed excitement I’m about to text this trailer to Everyone i know. Michelle Yeoh is and always has been a superhero!!!!!)

Everything Everywhere All At Once | A24

Starring Michelle Yeoh

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weishenmewwx

3 years ago

A co-worker the other day commented on how he had heard that the Chinese government was trying to crack down on femininity in men in the media, and I went crazy trying to find that awesome video of Wang Yibo wearing Chanel runway looks. Women’s Chanel runway looks. And I was blathering on and on (while still trying to stay professional and not-weird-obsessed) about how Wang Yibo can just DO that, and I can’t imagine anyone being able to stop him, or even slow him down, just because he likes wearing dangly earrings and orange eyeshadow. And women’s jackets.

I couldn’t find the video again on tumblr, but I had some success on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/hIAOXIf9Alw

Enjoy!

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Youtube wang yibo chanel chanel runway wang yibo wearing Chanel runway looks

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weishenmewwx

1 year ago