Parallel #6

FFVII Remake Easter Eggs and compilation continuity - Part 4: DIRGE OF CERBERUS

[Includes: DoC Online Multiplayer - DoC - DoC Lost Episode]

SHINRA’S DARKEST SECRET

In Chapter 3, Weimar tells Cloud and Tifa of the rumors about undregroud secret labs. In Chapter 13, after the plate fall, Cloud, Barret and Tifa enter this mysterious underground facility full of monsters and Mako tanks.

7R: There’s a crazy story about a Shinra research lab hidden right beneath our feet - under the slums.

DoC: Deepground soldiers. (...) The shadow of the Shinra company, constructed by the former president and completely hidden from the rest of the world. (...) His goal was to create an army of superhuman warriors - not once letting morality interfere.

  INTERMISSION

During Intermission it is not only confirmed the existence of Deepground but Yuffie and Sonon fight against some soldiers in their DoC uniforms.

Nero: "Team"? Fool. There are no "teams" in Deepground.

Yuffie: Deep...ground?

Nero: The place where my brother and I like to play.

WEISS AND NERO

After getting to Deepground Yuffie and Sonon had to fight against one of the Deepground Tsviets, Nero. Meanwhile Weiss was added as a boss fight in the Shinra Combat Simulator. 

VITUAL REALITY

The overall concept of Shinra using VR simulators comes from DoC. In particoular, in DoC Multiplayer SOLDIERs and Tsviets used to train exclusively in VR arenas. 

MOOGLE YUFFIE

During the first half of Intermission Yuffie wears a tattered cloak with a moogle hood. This piece of clothing appeared for the first time in Dirge of Cerberus. 

I can't grasp the reason why on this website there's this sort of unwritten rule that doesn't allow you to use the Clerith (or Cloti, I guess?) tag unless you're going to celebrate that one ship (does it work this way for every argument or is it just a FF7 LTD related thing?). Otherwise some self-proclaimed tags-controllers will order you to change your writing, in spite of basic common sense and freedom of expression.

As if this sort of cultic anon intimidations could actually scare anybody.

It's tremendously silly, why can't someone tag clerith if the enterity of their article is going to be about clerith and the tone, despite their opinion, is being polite and unagressive? If someone doesn't agree and really can't live with it, there's a useful, easy tool called "block button".

In a way it's hilarious, if the anon was reacting to OP's recent post, they missed the chance to say something productive and give an alternative answer to his last ask, explaining how and why clerith is the end-game pairing.

But, weird, it didn't happen.

All flash, no substance.

Bruh, we don't want to hear about your negative views about cleriths. Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her. He thought of Aerith a lot in OG , On the Way to A Smile, and AC. He went to live in her church. Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith? There are millions of places he could've gone but he chose the church. You don't have to believe our way of thinking if you don't want to, but don't tag clerith in your posts.

Thanks for your question. I think it's important to have these conversations so we can clear up these misunderstandings. Clouds motivations have been well documented so it's unfortunate that large swaths of the fandom seemingly are still in the dark about something that has been known for quite a long time, and I blame lack of communication. Before I answer your question though I'd like to address the style of it, since I find it amusing that in response to my article concerning productive conversation styles you not only used one of the styles I described, but even the same exact argument. This is a nice confirmation for me that I am right on the money. In my article, I said that the "dishonest inquiry" is the Clerith conversation style of choice. The example I gave was as follows:

The dishonest inquiry: “Why don’t you admit that Clouds actions in AC show that he doesn’t love Tifa?”

You mirrored this approach by saying "Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith?". The defining characteristic of the dishonest inquiry is that the question isn't asked with the goal of seeking clarification, but as an offensive tactic meant to attack the others position, you're not trying to evaluate your position, you're trying to get others to re-evaluate their position under the guise of a question. If we look at the rest of your post we can see the indicators I described for someone who has reached the last stage of the debate style. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her". As I noted in my article:

If assertions are backed up, they are backed up with other assertions designed to dissuade rebuttals, rather than investigating veracity.

This "argument" had no actual arguments, it was a meaningless assertion. Stating that you are correct in an attempt to avoid having to actual show that you're correct. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her": This is what you're trying to prove, you can't state what you're trying to prove as your starting premise.

If you're honestly interested in learning more about FFVII then leave out the baseless assertions, they literally just waste peoples time and makes them less willing to engage with you.

If I had to rephrase your question in a way that's more inviting for a productive discussion it would be something like this:

"Why do you believe Cloud chose Aeriths Church as his hiding place in AC? He thinks about Aerith a lot, what do you think the reason is for that if it's not love?".

The answer to this is pretty simple of course, it's been restated several times, this is not something that is some grand mystery, it's not even an aspect of FFVII that's particularly ambiguous. The reason he stays in Aeriths church is the same reason he's seen lingering at Zacks "grave", it's guilt. As stated in the 10th anniversary ultimania, and several other times:

when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him

While this is an element of the story that has been explicitly confirmed through ultimanias and quotes, this is not an element of the story that was ever in any way unclear, its a direct continuation of Clouds character arc in FFVII. Infact, Clouds mental health issues are the central part of the fake persona storyarc, and is arguably the core of the story. The rough order of events shown in FFVII, on the way to a smile, and Advent children (and also CC) concerning Clouds mental health is as follows. 1: Cloud as a boy want to protect Tifa. 2: Cloud fails to protect Tifa. 3: Cloud and townspeople blame Cloud for Tifas injuries. 4: Cloud internalizes this and beats himself up over his failure to protect Tifa. He develops a fear of failure. 5: Cloud starts acting up, starts wanting to prove himself, and decides to join Soldier to impress Tifa. 6: Cloud fails to get into Soldier, develops an inferiority complex. 7: Cloud is too ashamed of his failure to face Tifa. 8: Cloud fails to save his mother. 9: Cloud fails to save Nibleheim. 10: Cloud fails to save Tifa, again. 11: Cloud fails to save Zack. 12: Cloud develops a soldier alter ego that is everything that he isn't, as a defense mechanism. He hides from his own weakness. 13: Even as a soldier, Cloud fails to save Aerith. 14: Cloud regains his memories in the lifestream, and discovers he did fulfill his promise to come save Tifa. Here we basically end FFVII, and go into on the way to a smile. At this point Cloud has overcome the alien parasite messing with his mind by establishing a stronger sense of who he is. However, now that he's lost his fake soldier defense mechanism he's forced to deal with the past. His past failures haven't been fixed, he doesn't suddenly think he's a great person now, he simply can no longer use his fake persona to hide from his own weakness, and is forced to confront it. 15: Cloud still blames his own weakness for the deaths of Aerith and Zack, he thinks that he needs to atone for his sins, and thinks that the only way to do this is through living* 16: Cloud starts living with Tifa and experiences happiness and peace for the first time in his adult life.** 17: Cloud develops cherophobia and survivors guilt. He feels ashamed for being alive and happy while Aerith and Zack are dead because of him.*** 18: Clouds mental health deteriorates because of these feelings.**** 19: Cloud finds Denzel and sees him as a way to atone, having found a pathway to redemption, Clouds situation improves.***** 20: Cloud is unable to save Denzel from geostigma, and contracts it himself. 21: Clouds mental health worsens again, he failed again, he is unable to save Denzel, he is even unable to save himself, he won't be able to atone for his sins through living. He potentially brought an infectious disease into the house and as a result of his actions Tifa and Marlene will now lose him. 22: Depressed and ashamed, Cloud runs away. He thinks Tifa and Marlene are better off without him, he doesn't want them to see him waste away and die, he feels like he doesn't deserve to be happy and should instead die alone, Etc. Classic depression. (Some quotes concerning the *** are at the bottom of the article)

As for why he thinks about Aerith and Zack a lot, and hangs around the places that are connected with them, what else do you expect? Of course he's thinking about them, they're the people he failed, they're DEAD because of him. Cloud is a caring man, he beats himself up over it, of course he'd be thinking about them. And where else would a man wallowing in guilt and self-pity go than to those places? But the important thing to remember is that none of this is supposed to be seen as romantic. It's supposed to be viewed as sad and negative. Every internal character arc has something to overcome and this is what Cloud has to overcome in Advent children.****** Tifa to Cloud: "have we lost to our memories?" Cloud to Sephiroth: "Stay where you belong, in my memories" A well written story has internal and external obstacles to overcome, and ties the two together. In the case of advent children, the return of Sephiroth is the physical representation of Clouds internal character arc, which is that he should stop living in the past, and should move on. The past here isn't a positive thing he wants to get back to, Clouds past has always been a thing he's ran away from, but then is forced to accept. The past in Clouds case is a bad thing, his failures, and is something he should stop dwelling on. If you've ever seen the lion king, this resembles the scene where Rafiki hits Simba with a stick. "What does it matter, it's in the past", "yeah but it still hurts", "Oh Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it you can either run from it, or learn from it".

When Cloud returned to his normal self, he stopped running from the past, but as a result, he started dwelling in it. That's what he's doing in Aeriths church; dwelling in misery.

If we juxtapose Aeriths church with the 7th heaven, we can start to see where peoples misunderstandings are taking place. When some people look at the events of ACC they think that 7th heaven is a place of sadness, which Cloud leaves to be happy at Aeriths church, the place of happiness. The "have we lost to our memories" is then seen as a confirmation of this and that the memory, which they think corresponds to Aerith, is better than life with Tifa. This character arc then concludes with Cloud being happy by finally leaving Tifa behind, and riding off in the sun-set in search of Aerith at the end of the movie. But this interpretation falls apart as soon as you apply context to it, both narratively, and factually, it doesn't fit with with developer quotes, as well as the fundamental story themes of FFVII. 1: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, then why has Cloud been consistently quoted to experience happiness there? 2: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, and Cloud leaves at the end of the movie, then why has it been stated to be his promised land, aka, his land of supreme happiness (the reason it's literally called 7th heaven), and why is he stated to return there? ******* 3: If Clouds "memories" are positive, why is the plotarc resolved by Cloud telling the villain to "stay there"? 4: If Cloud is happy at the church, why is he living in self-deprecating squalor? 5: If Cloud loved Aerith and thought Denzel was sent to him by her, why did he abandon him? 6: Do you really think SE would write a story about a "hero" whose main emotional hurdle concerning the past comes down to. "I am sick of the girl I am with, I prefer the one that is dead, so I will get over the past by letting go of the girl I am with, as well as my adoptive children, to go chase the dead girl"? 7: Don't you think this would do Tifas character a tremendous disservice and do you think SE would be that preferential in their treatment? I could go on, but I think the point is clear. While the "Aeriths church is a happy place" interpretation is semi-coherent when looked at in isolation, it becomes exceedingly bizarre as soon as you place it in context. As I am fond of saying, this is not a matter of personal interpretation, it's a matter of lying to yourself vs not lying to yourself. I also suspect that this is the reason why SE changed the ending to advent Children, because people were misinterpreting it in this bizarre way, so they made it more in your face. In context, the following interpretation is much more fitting. Aeriths church is a place of sadness that Cloud runs to because of his guilt and depression. The "memories" line refers to Cloud dwelling on his past mistakes, as evidenced by his constant quotes about needing forgiveness. The character arc of moving on from the past is then resolved when he forgives himself, and as a result, defeats sephiroth, the metaphorical demon of his past. This allows him to return to his place of joy, his promised land, the 7th heaven, with a more positive outlook on the past. Instead of tarnishing Aerith and Zacks memories by wallowing in the past he instead moves on from it, thereby allowing it to become beautiful, which is represented by him planting Aeriths flowers on Zacks grave, and placing Zacks sword in the church. Instead of Zacks grave being the place where Zack died, it is now the place where a hero was born. Cloud has moved on, he has let his mistakes go, and has learned to come to terms with himself. I think it's hard to argue that this version of events is much less shallow, and much more meaningful than the story of a lovesick guy who abandons his partner and adoptive kids to go chase after a dead girl, but that's just me, what's more important is that it's the only version of events that's corroborated by the evidence. Thanks for the question. __________________________________________________

Corroborating quotes (not comprehensive)

* from case of Tifa: "“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things…"

** Nojima in AC prologue: "“Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful livinghe’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.” (among other quotes)

*** 10th anniversary ultimania: "when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him"

Aeriths 10th anniversary profile : Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off. -Aerith’s 10th anniversay profile.

And more, really this is reiterated constantly.

**** From case of Tifa: "During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes space out and not listen to her.

Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn’t protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

***** From case of Tifa: "Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back."

****** Reunion files, page 58: "As long as Cloud blames himself for Aerith’s death, he won’t be able to move on with his life. One of the first ideas we had for Advent Children was to have Cloud overcome and resolve that immense feeling of guilt. For Cloud, no one other than Aerith can solve that problem for him."

- Takahiro Sakurai pg. 15 reunion files: After Cloud was told, “Which is it? A memory or us?: by Tifa, he tells Sephiroth, “Stay where you belong. In my memories,” just before he defeats him. I think Cloud finally becomes free at this moment. Deep down, Cloud knew that he shouldn’t be so hard on himself, but at the same time he couldn’t let go of those feelings of guilt for what happened to Aerith and Zack, or the thought that he could never forgive himself for it. But then his companions made him feel better by telling him to let go. ******* "The place where he awakens—- That is Cloud’s Promised Land As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet. When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma— his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live."

"Aerith lends her power to the people suffering from Geostigma in Edge, and personally provides for Cloud’s recovery. Geostigma is cured. Cloud returns to Tifa and the children."

-  FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Complete Timeline

˗ˏˋ 2月7日 HAPPY BIRTHDAY AERITH! ˎˊ˗

During the dates with Aerith, Tifa or Yuffie at Gold Saucer, Cloud is involved in a theatre play.

It's a very simple and innocent tale where the player has multiple choices. Leaving aside the jokes, the story is about an Evil Dragon King who arrives in a peaceful kingdom, kidnaps the princess and takes her on the peak of a dangerous mountain. The hero goes to rescue her and can ask for the help of a knight or a wizard: if he asks the knight to intervene he's knocked down immediately, while the wizard says that love is the key to defeat the dragon. At the end of the play the dragon is defeated by the power of love.

It's only a fairy tale but...

Nibelheim was a peaceful town before the arrival of Sephiroth. In the area there are several dragons and Sephiroth burns down the whole town. Tifa, the daughter of the village chief, follows him in the reactor on Mt Nibel. Zack tries to fight Sephiroth and he's knocked down, but when Cloud arrives and sees Tifa unconscious, he finds the strenght to stab Sephiroth.

...

What a coincidence.

Beautiful ❤️

FFVII Remake Easter eggs and compilation continuity - Part 2: CRISIS CORE

     RUDE BEING...RUDE

When Cloud and Aerith meet Rude in Sector 5 he unceremoniously asks if he’s “her new boy toy”, referring to Zack. Crisis Core established that the Turks knew Zack and were aware of his relationship with Aerith.

    THE PUPPY

Stamp is a new element introduced in the Remake, which makes a mysterious appearance at the end of the game when Zack seemingly subverts his destiny. In Crisis Core Angeal used to refer to Zack as “puppy”. 

“Are you Zack the puppy? My son wrote to me once about you, zero attention span, restless as a little puppy.”

    BANORA WHITE

There are lots of billboards and flyers of “Banora White apple juice” around Midgar. Both Banora and its apples were introduced for the first time in Crisis Core and linked to Genesis.

     ORPHANS

This may be not intentional but it’s still odd to be just a coincidence: one set of Crisis Core side missions involved some orphans who escaped from a Shinra “care facility”. In the Remake, the Leaf House is an orphanage and, according to the novel “Traces of two pasts”, it is under Shinra’s influence.

      DATING

Just like in the OG, Aerith asks Cloud to be her bodyguard in exchange of one date. Her gesture is exactly the same of Zack’s when he asked her for one date.

    SELLING FLOWERS

When Aerith and Cloud arrive in Evergreen Park, she mentions the time she used to sell flowers there, which happened 5 years before with Zack.

“You know, a long time ago, I used to sell flowers here.”

    YOUR EYES

In Chapter 9 Aerith comments about Cloud’s beautiful mako eyes the same way she did with Zack. In the Japanese version, Cloud and Zack answer her with the same sentence:

Aerith: きれい (...) 瞳 [Beautiful (...) Eyes]

Zack/Cloud: 魔晄を浴びた者の瞳　ソルジャーの証だ [Eyes of those exposed to Mako, the mark of SOLDIER]

    PINK DRESSES

In Crisis Core Zack asked Aerith to wear something pink when they'd meet again. Even though Aerith’s dress has always been pink since the OG, her new optional Wall Market dresses are pink as well.

“From now on, why don’t we make a promise every time we meet? (...) For example, when we meet, you always have to dress in pink.”

    TRAINING ROOM

In Shinra HQ there’s a battle simulator where Zack and the other SOLDIERs used to train in CC.  

    SOLDIER PROJECT

During the meeting with the President and the Shinra executives in Chapter 16, Hojo mentions SOLDIER types G and S. He war referring to the two main projects behind the SOLDIER program - Hollander’s Project G and Hojo’s project S.

CC: “Jenova project G gave birth to Angeal and monsters like myself [Genesis]. Jenova project S used the remains of countless failed experiments to create a perfect monster [Sephiroth].” 

7R: “We could have the Ancient reproduce. (...) I would start with candidates from SOLDIER. These would of course include S and G types.” 

    CELLULAR DEGRADATION

In Chapter 7 President Shinra points out that SOLDIERs usually die prematurely due to cellular degradation. Genesis, after being wounded in the battle simulator, started suffering of severe and irreversible cellular degradation.

“Once a SOLDIER, always a SOLDIER. Though not, alas, for very long. Accelerated cellular degradation being the most common cause of death by far.”

    FALLEN ANGELS

While Sephiroth’s black wing was shown for the first time in Andvent Children some visual elements of the Remake recall elements from Crisis Core related to Genesis and Angeal.

    KUNSEL

In Shinra HQ some troopers recognize Cloud and mention Kunsel, a SOLDIER and close friend of Zack’s.

“Cloud? You’re Cloud right? (...) We went through training together. (...) Hey, sit tight man - I’mma go get Kunsel.

    BARRET’S LAST STAND

“Worst route ever. Gimme a suicidal last stand. At least - At least - at least that’d have an end!”

Barret says this when he reaches the 49th floor of Shinra HQ backstairs - SOLDIERs floor. It’s a reference to Zack’s last stand.  

    THE LIFESTREAM 

After the defeat of Whisper Harbinger the protagonists end up in a place full of light and walk on a watery surface. The same happened in Crisis Core during Zack’s dream that foreshadowed his death, a representation of the Lifestream. 

    FREEDOM

Before entering the sincularity in Chapter 18, Aerith says that beyond the portal there’s “Freedom. Boundless, terrifying freedom. Like a great, never-ending sky.” These words are a callback to Zack’s iconic “The price of freedom is steep”.

    THE SKY

In Crisis Core Aerith told Zack that she felt safe under the plate because the real sky frightened her. She reiterates this concept at the end of the Remake when she said “I miss it, the steel sky” (aka the plate), in Japanese "The sky, I hate it”.

    ZACK’S LAST STAND

This scene is repeated shot-for-shot in Chapter 18.

For the other parts refer to the masterpost

"Angeal, stay back. I'll take Sephiroth alone."

"Uhhhh yeah, Genesis so you don't want to do that because that sword that he's holding is bad news you see we basically went into this spooky temple and there were a bunch of statues and monsters and purple shit and everyone started talking like a lunatic and gaslighting the hell out of me and Seph and I kept dreaming about our moms and he was acting like a huge asshole and we had a slapfight and anyway the sword is cursed but not cursed but maybe kind of cursed and Seph went apeshit getting it and had to undergo all these bullshit trials with ghosts because the sword was kinda-sorta-maybe forged from an alien meteorite and has some freaky-deeky shit behind it and Seph was meant to have it or whatever but you really don't want to fight him because I remember what a nightmare that was and I'm not going near that sword ever again be glad I never even brought up Alissa because I'm pretty sure Seph would go into convulsions and does anyone even REMEMBER what happened to Bachman but seriously Genesis don't fuck around with Seph while he's using that sword you're gonna get--"

well-adjusted young man

"With you by my side, I'll never give up no matter how bad it gets."