If Hotd Writers Wanted Me To Hate Aemond Then Why Make Him The Bullied Kid Who’s Also The Bravest Little

if I see one more post about Aegon “bullying Aemond his entire life”, I will go fucking ballistic, I swear to g—

scratch that, I will actually go ballistic right now. this is the “Aegon doesn’t deserve such a shitty treatment” club and I’m the self-proclaimed CEO. we are about to do some analyzing and reading so BUCKLE UP.

gonna make one thing clear first — Aemond was bullied when he was a child. no one denies that, no excuses can be made for that. I’d only like to note that there wasn’t only one bully. here’s a quick reminder:

now that we successfully counted to three, let’s look over Aegon’s other horrible crimes relationship with Aemond throughout the years.

📍 the night Aemond lost his eye (S1EP7), Rhaenyra suggests he should be “sharply questioned” (she means tortured) so they can learn who told him that her sons were bastards. Viserys, in his perpetual denial, angrily asks Aemond “who spoke these lies” to which he replies that it was Aegon. it is clear that Aemond does that to deflect suspicion from their mother but his words come as a surprise to Aegon.

he’s in a tough spot — Viserys demands the answers “as their king”, not their father (to signify his authority and pressure them into telling the truth). and Alicent screamed in Aegon’s face and slapped him just a minute ago, so he may be less eager to defend her. he can easily lie and say that he overheard some maids gossiping or that he can’t remember where the rumor came from. instead, it takes Aegon about 5 seconds to back Aemond up.

📍 we didn’t get many scenes with young Aegon and Aemond in general, but here’s a short bit people keep overlooking: when Harwin and Criston start fighting, Aemond and Aegon instantly gravitate toward each other. and moreover, Aegon puts a hand over Aemond’s back (which to me is either a protective or a comforting gesture). what a horrible brother, truly.

📍 next we see them all grown up before dinner in S1EP8. I think it’s safe to assume that if Aegon has been bullying Aemond all these years, Aemond wouldn’t want to spend a second in his company. he’s seated between Helaena and Otto, both of whom are dear to him, so Aemond can stay at the table and chat with them. and YET, not only does Aemond voluntarily talks to Aegon, but their conversation seems friendly (you can barely hear it in the show so here’s the enhanced audio). Aemond makes a joke about Aegon’s drinking habits — Aegon quips back — and then, what a shocker! Aemond starts venting his frustrations to Aegon (“Even when the noose is so tight, they expect us to break bread”). nothing would’ve stopped him from venting to Otto but Aemond stays with Aegon. he wouldn’t have done that if there hadn’t been some level of trust between them. he wouldn’t have done that if he hated Aegon’s guts.

📍 at dinner, when Aegon pisses Jace off and the brunet springs to his feet, Aemond stands up too, which forces Jace to act as if nothing happened and come up with a toast. Aegon watches him with a shit-eating grin on his face. it’s the face that screams “I know you won’t dare to act up in front of my brother and my brother has my back”.

when Aemond makes a toast and calls Rhaenyra’s sons “strong”, Aegon raises a cup to that. he can sit this one out — Aemond has his personal vendetta against the boys, and it would be safer for Aegon not to meddle. but what does he do instead? when Luke gets up from the table (clearly intending to go to Aemond), Aegon instantly stands up, comes up to Luke and not just stops him but slams his face into the table right in front of Rhaenyra without thinking twice. and it doesn’t look like Aegon is just messing with him — no, it looks like he wanted to do that for a while. like Aegon finally got his chance to stand up for his brother too. AND he also stops Baela from joining the fight.

📍 S1EP9 is when we get a glimpse of Aemond’s ambitions: he deems himself better than Aegon, he thinks he deserves to be king. but once he finds Aegon and they get into a fight, it turns out that Aegon knows that Aemond is a better choice. he doesn’t want to fight him, he begs Aemond to let him go. and Aemond can do that — Criston has his back to them, so Aemond could’ve pretended that Aegon managed to break free. and even once they caught Aegon, I have no doubt that Aemond could’ve helped him escape. but it seems that, despite his displeasure, Aemond values his family the most. he can’t betray his mother’s trust, and he knows Aegon is the first in line to the throne. Aemond envies him, yes, he may even hate him because of that. but he values his family the most.

📍 as @florisbaratheons noted, during the coronation scene, when Aegon glances at his family, Aemond looks right at him and gives that tiny nod that says “I may hate this and think I am better for the job as king. But I’ve got your back.” I like that Aemond is the one who keeps eye contact in that scene. He could’ve turned away to signal his dissatisfaction with the situation, there wouldn’t have been any consequences for that. But he didn’t.

📍 what I find interesting about S1EP10 is the beginning of Aemond’s dialogue with Luke. that’s the boy Aemond wished to get back at for years and yet, he starts by saying “Did you think that you could just fly about the realm trying to steal my brother’s throne at no cost?”. Aemond could’ve skipped that part — imagine him saying smth along the lines of “Wait, Lord Strong! Don’t you think you and I have other matters to discuss?” (to which Luke answers that he doesn’t want to fight and the conversation goes on). instead, Aemond makes a point to remind Luke: my brother is the king, and I came here on his behalf. you can argue that Aemond doesn’t do it for Aegon specifically but for his family in general. but Aegon is a part of the family, and S1 Aemond has his priorities straight.

📍 as much as I hate comparing the show and the book (these are two different things and should be viewed as such), I’d like to remind you that Aegon was the only one who stood by Aemond’s side after Luke’s death. I wonder why we didn’t get that scene… I guess it’s because it would be kinda hard to call Aegon “the main bully” after he literally throws Aemond a feast. but we do get to see Aegon supporting his brother: in S2EP1 he welcomes Aemond at the small council meeting despite his mother’s protests (“Aemond is my closest blood and my best sword”). and he trusts Aemond wholeheartedly, that much is obvious.

📍 let’s get to the most controversial part — the brothel scene in S2EP3: some people believe Aegon is being a bully at that moment. those people seem to forget one little detail:

it’s been only a few days after the death of Aegon’s son whose murder was a direct result of Aemond’s ruthless actions. does Aemond ever address it? does he express his condolences? does he mayhaps help to catch the killers, being the skilled fighter that he is? the answer is NO.

I do think Aegon’s joke was cruel (I wrote a whole post about it) but that’s all it ever was — a JOKE. the humiliation comes not from the things he says but from the fact that Aemond is found in a vulnerable position and surrounded by a group of strangers while his brother laughs at him. TGC explained it best:

I also love @notbloodraven’s take on that scene:

Aegon lashing out so cruelly at Aemond seems to be an effort in making Aemond feel as badly as he does and blaming him for Jaehaerys without actually saying the words.

would this be the right way to act? no. but there’s no right way to grieve and to cope with the loss — and HIS SON WAS BEHEADED so maybe take 1% of the sympathy you show your favorite character(s) and cut Aegon some slack.

+ other things worth talking about:

📍 @bietrofastimoff23 analyzed S2EP3 beautifully and I can’t help but mention the scene that happens before Aegon goes to the brothel. it’s the moment when Larys suggests that Alicent and Aemond are plotting against Aegon. he isn’t surprised by the idea that his mother can do that — but the second his brother is mentioned, Aegon’s face falls and he shakes his head no. because there is no way Aemond would ever do that to him. and instead of asking for any proof, he asks Larys “who spreads these lies?” and then commands him to “tend to them.” Aegon can ask him to spy on Aemond, to find any dirt on him, find any weaknesses he can use — he does not.

📍 it turns out to be true — Aemond was plotting behind his brother’s back. which is treason btw (I don’t think Criston intended to keep things from Aegon — he probably believed that Aemond would let Aegon in on their plan). and Aegon does have the power to remind Aemond of his place — he can throw him off the council with a snap of his fingers, he can take offense at Aemond’s attempt to publicly humiliate him (their conversation in High Valyrian — Ewan himself calls it a “public execution”). but that’s not what happens: as TGC phrased it, Aemond’s betrayal “breaks a bit of Aegon’s heart off”. an actual bully would’ve immediately pushed back, but Aegon silently sits down and doesn’t argue, he’s so defeated he can’t utter a word. he has the means to be a bully but he doesn’t contemplate it for a second.

📍 I don’t want to talk about S2EP6 because it makes me sick but I will reiterate one thing: never ONCE Aegon made fun of Aemond’s disability or tried to cause him any physical harm. just want to point that out.

there is no moral to this story, I guess. if you managed to read till the very end, thank you. if you still hate Aegon, that’s your opinion and you are allowed to have one — but please, for the love of god, just stop making shit up. no, Aemond was NOT bullied as an adult, absolutely nothing suggests that he was. Aegon was naive to blindly trust him and it backfired on him, that’s the actual story. and if you are so eager to hold Aegon accountable for his mistakes, maybe it’s time for Aemond to take responsibility for his actions too.

+ some of my favorite critical posts about Aegon and Aemond: x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x.

P.S. I will not argue with anyone so please don’t waste your time — I consider all my arguments solid and that’s enough for me. if you are thinking of sending me anon hate, pls go take a walk instead, it will do you more good. 🌿

Plot Bunny - Jace took Harvin's lessons a little too close to heart

This plot bunny is destined for the stew, because I simultaneously under-squeezed and over-squeezed it. According to the original idea, purely logically, Aemond should die (you'll understand later), but the thought of it almost gave me a heart attack, a stroke, and thirteen seizures at once. You will take my little beloved son only by digging up my grave and tearing him from my rotting hands. So realism goes somewhere where I have never been and will not, okay?

* * *

"You will die screaming in flames just as your father did!" Aemond growls, holding a stone over little Luke's head. Jace's eyes dart between the stone and his brother, looking warily at his uncle, who has just managed to fight off the three of them and take a hostage. However, as soon as he hears this threat, his face immediately changes - from confused and fearful, it becomes attentive and focused.

"My father’s still alive!" Luke yells, and suddenly Aemond has no interest in threatening physical violence. No, his sharp-tongued uncle has better things to do - while he loved a good fight, consistently winning in his training, he found his true calling in taunts and threats, putting his mind before his sword.

Jace feels his blood boiling like a true dragon's - he's not a cold-blooded seahorse, is he? He's the son of a dragon princess and Harwin Strong. He's lost a father he won't be allowed to mourn, a father he never knew as a parent. More than that, it means he's a bastard, a sin in the eyes of the gods and other men, and everyone, everyone knows it - and Uncle Aemond isn't shy about saying it out loud.

"He doesn’t know, does he, Lord Strong?" Aemond sneers, and that's the last straw for him.

Jace draws his dagger and charges into battle. Aemond throws Luke towards him, and Jace, without much tenderness, throws his younger brother, who had just been choked and almost hit in the head with a rock, aside so that he would not be in the way.

A swing, another swing of the blade - all misses. Aemond is too fast, too agile, even though they are the same age, but the level of combat skills is simply unattainably different in his uncle's favor.

Jace remembers what his father Harvin Strong taught him, and, dodging a rock aimed at his head, strikes again with the dagger, this time faster, more accurately, and harder. And hits.

Aemond does not scream. He gasps weakly, strangled, and sinks to the ground, pressing his hand to the hilt of the dagger protruding from his stomach.

The cave shakes with the deafening, enraged roar of Vhagar.

* * *

The idea, basically, is this: what if Jace had stabbed Aemond in the gut? In canon (BOOK! IT'S THE ONLY CANON I RECOGNIZE! show just gives me characters, a few scenes, and a distaste for life), Vhagar went nuts when her boy got his eye cut out. If Aemond thinks he's dying, the old war criminal lady will burn half of Driftmark before she can be calmed down, and the whole island will be fucked if Aemond actually dies.

But he won't die, because plot armor will suddenly appear, the maesters will patch him up better than a Swiss hospital, because Corlys will do anything to save any part of his house, and because I fucking said so.

There's no denying that this was an assassination attempt on Jace's part anymore - it's weird that the show doesn't say anything about it. How will the investigation go in this case, who is right, who is guilty, and who should get what cut off as punishment? I don't know, but it will be fun =)

PS. English, if you ever come back with the milk you went for, I will throw you out, we barely knew each other, but you made me so many children =/

how interesting that when Rhaenyra looks at a maimed boy whose eye was gouged out by her own son and says "he must be sharply questioned" (aka tortured) for repeating things about her that she knows are 100% true, and when Alicent is horrified that an insult to Rhaenyra (which is, again, 100% true) is considered more important than her son literally being maimed and whose broken skin is currently being stitched up as they speak, Viserys chooses to support Rhaenyra. He walks up to his bleeding brutalized son and orders him to tell him where he heard such lies. He offers him no comfort or reassurance as a father, just an order. "Your King demands an answer."

(and frankly, he expected them to say Alicent. Look at the way he looked at her. He was almost expectant. He wanted her to be condemned)

and both of them prove completely unwilling to obey him. they look at this piece of deadbeat shit right in the eye and say: "We know, Father. Everyone knows. Just look at them."

And now that the accusation has turned back to Rhaenyra, does Viserys choose to listen and do something about it? does he? no, lol.

Instead he declares: "This terrible infighting must cease. We are family." How convenient. how fucking convenient. when Rhaenyra wanted justice (aka the further torture of a maimed kid for telling the truth) Viserys is fully willing to indulge her. He wasn't Aemond's family when he questioned him: he said it himself, tell me by the order of your King. But when his children refuse to listen to him, when the issue turns back to Rhaenyra? We're all family, let's reconcile and put this behind us :)

and that is when Alicent asks Viserys for justice of her own.

just look at Alicent's tone. Rhaenyra was the one who flat-out demanded that Aemond be questioned. Alicent isn't demanding anything, she is pleading. You think she cares about taking Luke's eye? (just minutes later, it's Rhaenyra she goes after. and when Larys asks her flat out if she wants him to do the deed for her, she tells him that it won't be necessary). Look at what Alicent says after this: "He is your son, Viserys. Your blood." This fucking asshole has raped her and abused her, and she is begging him to at least care about his children with her. And he does not.

He displays, for the whole court to see, that he does not give a fuck about his wife and their children. His young son has been horrifically maimed, but shielding and coddling his adult daughter from completely justified "accusations" is what he is most concerned about.

"This matter is finished," Viserys says. And right after? "Anyone whose tongue dares question the birth of Princess Rhaenyra's sons should have it removed." So essentially: the matter is over, everyone should make goodwill, but his precious daughter is always right and will always be his first priority. partly to soothe his own guilt over murdering his previous wife, and partly because Rhaenyra is a Targaryen which, to him, will always make her more worthy than Alicent.

and so it is his wife and other children - including the one who is bleeding in the same damn room - who pay the price for that

And thus, all of Alicent's well-founded fears about the life of her children and herself if Rhaenyra takes the throne are completely solidified. She and Rhaenyra do not share equal culpability for this conflict in the show, because Rhaenyra begins by fighting for power and Alicent begins by fighting for survival. The blame is fundamentally unequal.

you CANNOT tell me that Alicent was unjustified in how she reacted. you CANNOT tell me that she wasn't 100% right in grabbing that knife and going right to Rhaenyra (to rhaenyra! not to luke), demanding justice.

"and now you take my son's eye, and to even that you feel entitled" She is right. She is absolutely right. (She has no idea how right she is, actually, because that entitlement will lead directly to Rhaenyra's downfall someday)

Alicent Hightower finally snapped. GOOD FOR HER.

never getting over aegon's face expression upon seeing his own brother's dong so close to his face

comedy GOLD

Something something the concept of granting meaning and importance to an object/phenomenon/person by giving them a name

It is especially relevant in the world like the one ASOIAF is set in, where the name serves as an extremely important defining factor for many characters (mostly a family name but also their given one). And boy, did HotD writers lean into this - in their own way.

I am not the first one to point out that Jaehaera's name hasn't been mentioned in the show at all - not once. But guess who got to have one?

Sure, everyone absolutely needs to remember a girl who was raped by the prince (who is now the king) and who, except for that fact - which serves the purpose of vilifying said prince (and, in some way, by association, the entire TG) - had zero relevance to the plot. And so we have Dyana - because this absolutely unbiased show can't have anyone forget that the Greens' candidate for the throne has some deplorable proclivities. She even got some extra screen time in season 2: once again, absolutely unnecessary except for reminding the audience of her existence - and of Aegon's sins.

But who cares about the only remaining child of the king; the girl who came within a hair's breadth from death and then lost her twin brother; the one true joy left to her mother? Why would she even need a name?

Jaehaera's fate in the show is uncertain (the writers didn't do away with her at the very least) - but for now she is not even a tool of the story but merely a dead weight that just had to be there for Blood and Cheese to have someone to choose from. And then she was simply conveniently (nearly) forgotten becoming just "Helaena's daughter" - no name, no face, no emotional attachment from the audience. I just wonder if the writers' unwilingness to actually involve Jaehaera in the story (or just let the viewers properly see her) comes from them being equally unwilling to make the audience remember her brother whose death and its consequences they are so eager to sweep under the rug in order to minimize the PR damage done to the Blacks.

P.S. Speaking about the importance of names - they need to be not only revealed but also remembered. Jaehaerys didn't end up nameless - but how many times was he actually called by his name in the show? Right off the bat I can remember only one such case: Aegon asking Helaena where he was in episode 1. And while I believe this was not the only time (I am terribly sorry but right now I can't make myself rewatch any part of season 2, not even for science - so feel free to point out the rest), I have a distinct feeling that he still was far more often referred to as "boy", "child", "son", "heir to the throne" and whatnot. Once again: no name, no memory - which IMO is exactly what the writers were going for.

May i speak, please?

I got blocked by an opponent mid-argument on Twitter, which… isn't really surprising. I had the nerve to disagree with a TB stan that holy Rhaenyra suffered terribly for the month or two she spent trying to squeeze sperm out of Laenor for a Velaryon baby, and then jumped on Harwin like he was the last man on earth. No joke, a wedding to Laenor in 114 AC, and the birth of Jace in late 114 AC - and I'm told that poor Rhaenyra thought she was infertile because Laenor couldn't ungay himself.

So since I wasn't allowed to say it there, I'll say it here: Ways Rhaenyra could have avoided the war, or at least won against the greens AND the patriarchy.

1) Pick someone other than Harwin, because are you fucking serious?

Laenor can't have kids? Spend more than a few weeks trying. Unite with him in grief after the death of "good friend" Joffrey and give Laenor time to recover. Afterwards, invite a man to bed to "warm up" your husband. Or ask him to jerk off and finish inside you. Or find dragon seed on dragonstone. Or leave the poor man alone and visit his parents.

Corlys wanted Velaryon's blood on the throne? Let him find a candidate willing to fuck the princess twice - for the throne and for Driftmark. He has a dozen cousins ​​and nephews, man, is it really that hard?

And if you like it, take the boytoy as a permanent favorite and have a couple more children, apparently this is your hobby or something.

Yes, it sounds horrible and dehumanizing, like breeding show dogs (which I consider as animal cruelty, by the way), but that's the nature of arranged marriages, especially in Westeros. If the goal is to have babies that look like Velaryons, there are other ways than sleeping with the most fisrt man-looking human alive.

2) Do you have heirs? Make convenient marriages!

Now that Alicent can't find fault with your babies' looks, betroth the boy to Helaena, or the girl (if you have one) to Aegon. Either way, green blood will be on the throne, and Otto can stop his shitty scheming.

Or, if you don't like that option, make arranged marriages. Since there's no need to appease the Velaryons by marrying Jace to Baela, and Luke to Rhaena, you have two excellent sons to trade with. Baratheon has plenty of daughters - the Stormlands are yours. The Lannisters have daughters too - the Westerlands are ready for an alliance.

And in the end the greens are left with a part of the Riverlands and the Reach - well, let them fight you, it will take about a week or two to win.

3) Daemon as a lover? Why not. As a husband? Never, fucking, ever in my life.

Laenor can live, considering that there is no need for his fake death - after all, your children are Velaryons, aren't they?

Uncle is hot as hell, but considering that he is the reason you were named heir in the first place - let him stay in your bed, and not claim the crown and the title of king consort.

4) Dragonstone? No need, I'm fine here.

Yes, you are the princess of Dragonstone, that's true. And you have every right to go there and learn to rule. But when your stepmother is plotting and trying to put a reluctant son on the throne, why make her life easier?

Visit Dragonstone as much as you want, but make it clear that your place as heir and next queen is by your father's side, helping him, learning to rule, and keeping your finger on the pulse.

5) Learn to lie, or remember that greens are related to you too.

Aegon never wanted to be king until he was reminded that Rhaenyra was a danger to his family. So don't give him reason to think so.

You may not like greens and you have every right, but creating enemies from scratch, only to fight them twenty years later, sacrificing children, dragons, allies, and the crown - why?

6) The Dance of Dragons? Seriously?

Aegon doesn't want to be king, and he won't be talked into usurping it, knowing his older sister wouldn't hurt him or his family. If Jace is betrothed to Helaena, Otto won't mind if not his grandchildren, but his great-grandchildren take the throne. No one can stand against you, the first queen of Westeros with powerful alliances in the North by oath, the Vale by blood, the Stormlands and the Westerlands by children's marriage.

You win, Rhaenyra, wear your crown with pride.

Oh, wait, that's not how it's happened in canon. Well, shit.

How did Alicent not create and further a hostile environment when she essentially forced Rhaenyra to present her baby immediately after childbirth, and acted with mocking concern that Rhaenyra walked all the way to her. Even while Alicent KNEW her mother died in childbirth. Alicent furthering rumors that her children are bastards, Alicent making Rhaenyra’s life hell and dangerous so much that she left to Dragonstone, Alicent leading to Harwin’s death. By your logic Cersei didn’t create any hostile environment either since they’re all just blameless women who don’t have power. Cersei couldn’t stop Joffrey from doing anything so Sansa has no right to hate her then

Alicent asked the baby be brought to her sometime after birth, and Rhaenyra chose to maliciously comply by carrying the baby herself, so people would see how bad Alicent was for making her go all that way when in reality Alicent just asked for a servant to bring the baby to her. Why did both of them do this? Well, it's clearly established that at this point there's been a decade of back and forth shot-taking at each other. The green dress moment, this incident, the contrasting opinions at the small council, the petty comments... all of this is indicative of the two of them trying to power play each other out because they didn't like each other. In this case, Alicent wanted to confirm for herself the third bastard, and Rhaenyra knew this and decided to accompany the baby despite Alicent not asking her to in order to shift the focus onto Alicent's request being unreasonable and away from the idea that she was requesting to see the baby so soon to confirm its parentage in the first place. It's them playing with perception of others here and trying to control the situation better than the other. Again, because there is a mutual dislike each other and there are competing interests between the two women.

None of the women in this story are wholly powerless, but there are women who have more or less power than others. Rhaenyra always had more power than Alicent, point blank. Rhaenyra is a Targaryen dragonrider, in the king's eyes his favorite and "only" child, and named heir to the throne. Alicent is the non-Valyrian dragonless daughter of a second son, and even though she became Viserys' second queen, clearly the king did not value her, setting her aside, laughing at her in public, calling her the wrong name in front of others, and he clearly did not care at all about their children together. The power level between the two is uneven, and it's crazy that people seem to think somehow Alicent is this all powerful villain who could have one-sided outright bullied a poor, powerless, helpless Rhaenyra. The power difference is clearly seen at Driftmark, when Rhaenyra gets the king to do everything she asks while Alicent begs him for any care about her son just to be ignored. All along Rhaenyra could wield her father's favoritism to benefit her, and she did, in that moment and again when Vaemond Velaryon came to court.

It's also important to acknowledge that the bastard "rumor" was not solely a Green creation that Alicent decided to make up with the purpose of making Rhaenyra look bad or something. As Aegon put it at Driftmark, everyone had eyes and could see that these white skinned brown haired boys clearly looked more similar to the white skinned brown haired man always at Rhaenyra's side than her husband, with his dark skin and white hair, who spent less time with Rhaenyra and the family than Harwin and more time with his squires. This plain fact is damaging and dangerous to Rhaenyra, but Rhaenyra is to blame for this. Her and Laenor tried maybe once before she immediately became pregnant with Jace by Harwin, according to the timeline, and as Margaery and actual history shows us it was definitely possible for queer men to have gotten a woman pregnant with the purpose of producing an heir. However, Rhaenyra was just interested in acting to their arrangement of dining as she pleased, and then proceeded to recklessly have not one but three clear pieces of evidence to her breaking her vow to her husband (which maybe is less scandalous to us, the modern viewer, but oath breaking is pretty serious in Westeros, especially for women). And before there's an argument of how she was forced to marry a gay man... Rhaenyra (and Daemon) did that. She left her marriage tour to pick her own match among hundreds of suitors early and then was seen in a brothel with Daemon, tarnishing her reputation and forcing her father to quickly marry her to a Velaryon (and of course Daemon brought her there with the purpose of sullying her reputation enough so Viserys would just let Daemon marry her). The funny thing here is that Harwin himself could have been a marriage candidate as the heir to Harrenhall and an active member at court, and he was certainly an option to consider! But she lost her chance. As heir to the throne and a Targaryen woman, there was no situation where she would not have needed to get married and make an heir, and Rhaenyra should have known this and considered her options while she had them. Then even when she was married to Laenor, there were ways around his queerness. Try to have a baby, or petition that he's infertile and the marriage should be absolved on that grounds so she can marry someone else. But Rhaenyra wanted to have her cake and eat it too; she wanted the Velaryons on her side to support her claim to the throne and a son of hers to one day inherit Driftmark, and she wanted to only have sex with Harwin and have his babies. Both were impossible at the same time if she wanted to avoid conflict.

Essentially, all of this put together, it was through her own choices that Rhaenyra had three obvious bastards that weakened her own claim and put herself in the middle of a political scandal. And even when Alicent talked about it at all, it was only with Viserys, Criston, and Larys in private (and she potentially told her children, likely to warn them of the further succession crisis this would cause when Rhaenyra or her sons try to come to power despite their weak claims and bastard status in this society that despises bastards). Obviously all of them already had eyes and knew the truth, and Criston had also already known the truth of what was going on because Rhaenyra explicitly had told him about the arrangement, and it was clear that Harwin was the one who filled that role for her. So when the third bastard is born, he goads Harwin into fighting him, exposing his role in the situation, and the attention on Harwin this causes results in Lionel Strong sending him back to Harrenhall. Then, Larys takes advantage of the situation to kill them both and become Lord of Harrenhall. He says he did it for Alicent, to get her father back, but realistically there's no reason to expect Viserys should have even asked Otto back as Hand after firing him (and he really shouldn't have, if he was trying to help Rhaenyra consolidate power). All of this considered, it's a pretty big step to say that Alicent is to blame for Harwin's death. I personally say it was Harwin's decision to be Rhaenyra's lover and father to her children that got him sent away from court, and then it was his own brother's decision to kill him for power.

Not exactly sure what your point is trying to bring up Cersei when the contexts are pretty different... like sure she was a lady married to a king who didn't love her and then she fought for her children's rights ruthlessly. But Cersei has a closer parallel in Rhaenyra, to be honest: a mother to three bastards who uses them to usurp thrones they have no real claim to and who ignores their misdeeds completely and/or weaponizes them against their victims. The obvious parallel here is Joffrey threatening and cutting the butcher's boy, getting attacked by Nymeria, and Cersei immediately pushing her own version of events that unquestionably paints her son as the ultimate victim and demanding the king take action against the others, and the Strong boys ambushing Aemond with a knife, beating on him four on one, cutting out his eye, and then Rhaenyra immediately pushing her own version of events that unquestionably paints her sons as the ultimate victims and demanding the king take action against the others. Cersei definitely did create hostile environments through her actions, as did Rhaenyra. Cersei could have tried to control Joffrey better, but she was unwilling to acknowledge his flaws or try to hold him accountable when he had done wrong. Almost like how Rhaenyra never talked to her boys about jumping a kid and cutting his eye out because she was unwilling to acknowledge their role in the situation or hold them accountable for their actions. Both mothers saw their children as largely flawless and were unwilling to confront them with their mistakes or misdeeds.

I’m going to preface this post by saying I don’t give a flying fuck about the hate I’m going to receive for the opinion I will be sharing and I won’t bother replying to any comments attacking me for it.

I fucking LOVE that Aemond killed Luke and I wish it wasn’t accidental. I wish Luke’s death was full on intentional, lol.

As a victim of bullying, I’ve been in situations where I have had to fend off 20+ kids as a kid myself. I’ve been verbally, physically, emotionally and psychologically assaulted as a child by other children, simply because I wanted, strived for and had good grades in school, actions that did not affect any of my classmates in the slightest. Therefore, I absolutely sympathise with Aemond, whose lack of dragon and later on his acquisition of one hurt no one (dragons belong to no one, you snooze you lose), yet he still got ridiculed and attacked for it. Yes, Aegon was also a bully and I hate him for it, but ultimately he grows out of it and supports his family, unlike the Strong bastards who remain bullies and assaulters. Oh, and Aemond tried to hit Jace with a rock because he attacked him first. Accusing him for standing up for himself is victim blaming. People who defend the Strong boys are bullies and that’s final.

No, I don’t give a rat’s ass that his attackers were children. Aemond was a child, too, and they ganked him 4v1. It’s crazy how some of y’all support physically attacking someone because you don’t agree with them. It was satisfying to see him kick their teeth in. Aemond and Luke are only 2 years apart, even if the actors’ appearances suggest otherwise. Your age does not excuse you being a fucking piece of shit. Children and teenagers appear on the news daily as rapists, killers, assaulters and all kind of criminals. That’s the reason juvie exists. Children should face the consequences of their actions.

“Are you excusing child murder?” if it is by the hand of the child they unapologetically disabled, fuck yeah. Besides, at the end of the day, Aemond dies, too, so you could say justice is served.

Still, I would have given the Strong boy the benefit of the doubt if it weren’t for this scene:

Lucerys is laughing at Aemond.

He is looking him in the eye and he is laughing at him. It’s been 6 fucking years. Lucerys is 17 (confirmed by the writers) and he feels no remorse for what he did. He was not punished for his action, so he has learned nothing.

He feels safe to mock Aemond, in the comfort and safety of his grandfather’s house, where his guard and stepdad can stop Aemond, whom he cannot beat on his own, from bashing his head against the wall. He feels safe to attack Aemond when he calls him Strong, knowing that other people will finish the fight he started but can’t win.

But what happens when no one is around to protect him from the consequences of his own actions? He shits himself. His face falls, he stumbles backwards and does not object to Aemond calling him Strong.

Not laughing now, huh, you little shit stain?

Aemond baby, get behind me.

"I don't think he was the sole reason they had Alicent hand KL over to Rhaenyra but he was most likely one of the reasons."

Alicent Hightower is the poster girl for Team Green, since the first season HotD has always advertised the show as Alicent vs. Rhaenyra rather than Aegon II vs. Rhaenyra I so there would have been a lot of reasons to pull the rug from under the audience and have her switch sides. It would have been discussed at length, weighing out pros and cons, deciphering how best to do it etc. It wasn't a last minute decision, they would have put thought into this.

At the end of the day all roads lead back to Rhaenyra Targaryen and their refusal to make even slightly morally grey.

So the reasons they had Alicent betray Team Green:

Rhaenyra the Cruel

Helaena's suicide

Rhaenicent

Jace

They hate Alicent

They love Rhaenyra

Rhaenyra the Cruel: they've already used this name in 2x02 with the purpose of showing it was undeserved, Rhaenyra had nothing to do with B&C so how could the people give her such a horrible name? 😢 But as we know she was given this moniker for raising taxes as the Greens hid all the gold and even after being mutilated by the torturers Tyland Lannister refused to tell them where the gold was. By having Alicent betray the Greens all blame will be placed on her because she should've known this was their plan. I bet they'll even have her suggest raising the taxes and thus be called "Alicent the Wicked" instead.

Helaena's suicide: her son was violently decapitated in front of her leaving Helaena an emotional wreck. Once Rhaenyra seizes Kingslanding she'll be forced to play nice with her son's killers, worsening her mental state. In the books what ended it for Helaena was Myseria telling her Maelor's dead, he doesn't exist in the show so it will probably Daemon cruelly telling her Alicent's the reason Rhaenyra's on the throne. Finding out your own MOTHER colluded with your son's executioner is enough to tip anyone over the edge, and that's exactly what's going to happen. Helaena's suicide now has nothing to do with Rhaenyra, it's all because Alicent betrayed her.

Rhaenicent: well this is an obvious one, they're obsessed with this ship and for some dumbass reason think this is what viewers want. If they have to destory George's work to force this doa relationship to work then so be it!

Jace: I don't think this was the no.1 reason simply because even if Alicent didn't betray the Greens they can still have Rhaenyra seize Kingslanding without Jace dying, he doesn't have to be the trigger. That being said, when they were having the brainstorming sessions I'm sure this came up as one of the justifications for the change. Pretty boys make money, and he's all Team Black has in the pretty boy department.

They hate Alicent: it cannot be said enough, never in my life have I seen writers hate half of a ship so much, it's so peculiar to me. So they've reduced her to nothing, she's lost her fanbase and every single positive character trait, she's been downngraded from Queen Dowager to Rhaenyra's "pet". Her existence is a neverending punishment for daring to turn on Queen Rhaenyra I Targaryen, she needs to be humbled and degraded! Now she's the reason Otto's executed, Gwayne's killed and Helaena commits suicide, everything that happens to Team Green is solely her fault because she's a traitor.

They love Rhaenyra: Rhaenyra must be 100% perfect, to suggest otherwise is blasphemy! Forget about morally grey, they can't even make her off-white because she has to be pure with no real flaws. Episode 8 was all about Alicent being humbled and the writers reminding the audience why Rhaenyra is 100x better than her awful stepmother as both a mother and a Queen.

You breakdown perfectly. 💯

What better way to break team green as valid choice than break the head of it?

If the show wasn't bias as claim to be they would make Alicent the one that pushes and plan things with Aegon like the books hint at. Even Aemond betrayal is more forgivable when you put into context the parallels between him and Daemon.

But Alicent? She is the front figure they use to promote tg and then destroying her breakdown all the base for tg. Humiliating her, means humiliate team green. Making her betray her own faction and saying nothing of this matter, makes any team green claim invalid.

Now there is only one claim that is some what valid, and a bunch other people with their own agendas.